No net deduction. Rev. But I don't think that it's all that relevant in the donation context. The Federal Gun Control Act imposes additional restrictions on certain weapons, including assault weapons, plastic guns, machine guns, armor piercing bullets and body armor. Sure, if it has the value and the language about no goods/services received. I'd also be fine treating these coins like stock. ******************** ("Company") intends to sell gold coins for delivery to Massachusetts purchasers. Going down the 1031 path will get us nowhere in this inquiry. Collectibles are taxed as capital gains or losses similar to stocks and bonds but with one very important exception. And your proof of this is what? Sec. It can be valued just as easily, you just weigh it instead of looking it up on a stock chart. Tangible personal property tax is paid by a landlord or company to its local government, but landlords or company owners can claim a deduction on federal income tax returns. If there is value other than as a medium of exchange the coin is tangible personal property. Dennis points are more than well taken. But the objections to the PLR are more than just "someones opinion." Note: You are using this website at your own risk, subject to our, http://www.aicpa.org/publications/taxadviser/2013/january/pages/clinic-story-07.aspx, http://www.taxalmanac.org/index.php/Discussion:Donation_of_Gold_Coins, Lacerte Professional Tax Preparation Software, Newsletter for Accounting & Tax Professionals. You persist in missing my point. Although Dave's post is concise and to the point, which is helpful (thank you, Dave), I have also found Chris's and Dennis's insights helpful as well. And the law hasn't quite caught up to this new paradigm. Finding a qualified financial advisor doesnt have to be hard. So, more than likely, DAJ's coins are the ones described in 408(m). Property taxes in America are collected by local governments and are usually based on the value of a property. That was his point. This is contrasted with intangible personal property, which includes stocks, bonds, and intellectual property like copyrights and patents. And, the stuff in 31 USC 5112 probably includes the coins described by the OP. In PLR 9225036, dealing with a proposed gift of Krugerrand gold coins to a charitable remainder unitrust, the IRS said: However, the IRS apparently was ready to reverse its position in a later PLR that was withdrawn because the taxpayer died. The IRS has ruled that nonrare gold coins (such as Krugerrands, U.S. Mint gold coins, and Canadian Maple Leaf coins) are to be treated like currency 27 and are therefore not subject to the restrictions applicable to the donation of tangible personal property. Often, these items are of relatively little monetary value, but of great sentimental worth. If its deemed to be tangible personal property, then you can just gift it via a separate list, without the need for witnesses or a notary. This page is located more than 3 levels deep within a topic. Therefore, pursuant to the rationale of Rev. This is how all the cases come down on it on the recognition side. In most states, a business that owned tangible property on January 1must file a tax return form with the property appraisal office no later than April 1in the same year. Tangible personal property in the pour over will and trust is left to 4 adul . I'm also smart enough to know that OP's client has a pretty good case to make some waves with this issue. I do wonder though, why a stock certificate is not treated as tangible personalty. gold, silver, or numismatic coins of any value; iii. The Regan era coins are like kind with gold bullion. With Examples. A .mass.gov website belongs to an official government organization in Massachusetts. I myself don't think we should treat a dime as personal property. I think that's a more complete scenario. 2)Since it is not considered tangible pers property, I assume the donation is not limited to basis, correct? Depending on the item, the nature of your business, when the item was purchased and other factors, you may be taxed on the fair market value of your TPP. Implication being, maybe these coins are treated as money. Personal property comes in two forms. It's money for crying out loud. As such, those definitions and categorizations we use for other purposes of the Code, like realization, shouldn't necessarily be extended to Sec 170 with no questions asked. Contact us today or call862.307.8719. There is little doubt that gifts of gold bullion or of shares in a gold bullion ETF are gifts of tangible personal property. Then we'll put the coins in an "account" and transfer the account to charity. The same rules with respect to interstate sales that are applicable to sales and purchases of other tangible personal property also apply to sales of coins, silver and gold bullion, and other precious metals. If you guys are thinking, "Dennis seems to be focusing on the status quo and ignoring the fact that the U.S. has started minting gold coins again," you would be right. International trade would hardly work if they weren't. McNamee Hosea Most charities don't say much more than "Thank you. When you sell personal-use property, such as cars and boats, in most cases you do not end up with a capital gain. Just redo the list. Sure would be nice, by the way,if you could find some kind of opinion supporting the logic of the PLR. Medium size and motorized boats usually require registration with the State. Not one that changes the definition of the coins as collectibles. Animal shelters or rescues may be a good choice. (Might also want to try paying your local property taxes with onesee how much credit they'll give youor, just ask Mr. Klein (Crummey vs. Klein Indep. Then, the appraiser will compare these values to . The Will may also provide for equalizing distributions of cash from the estate so that if one beneficiary receives the decedents expensive jewelry or a vehicle, the other beneficiaries could receive cash from the estate so that each beneficiary inherits equally. This is why a dime, if circulating, is not treated as "property other than money" under the tax code. Gold coins are more akin to stock than a publicly traded ETF holding bullion. Point is taken. School Dist., 2008 WL 4441957 (5th Cir. The largest gold ETF owns gold bullion worth about $70 billion. http://www.pgdc.com/pgdc/tangible-personal-property. We have Congressional intent. A statement by someone who authored an article? Contact Us: Pets Ones pets are considered to also be tangible personal property. Often, a Will will leave all such tangibles to a spouse or to children. (Note that gain reported under the four-tier system for taxing unitrust payments will be taxed at 28% until all gain attributable to the bullion has been distributed). Even a dime gets included in one's estate, based on it's value. And, I'm also smart enough to know that OP's client has a pretty good case to make some waves with this issue. My mind is closed from the standpoint that I do not believe we should always apply old paradigms to new issues. her pearls go to her favorite niece, Alice. But the carve out, although it doesn't mean that much, at least in my mind, makes one wonder if the implication is that the carved out coins are, in fact, "money." Outright gift of gold bullion An unreferenced PLR that was withdrawn and not published isnt any help. I get it. You make no sense. b) FMV is higher than basis Security & Privacy | And a judge might just be the one to do it. So, by this definition, such a good coin wouldn't be a collectiblemaybe wouldn't be "property other than money," leading one to conclude that it might be money. If the issue is unresolved it would be only because no-one wants to try your method and face the preparer penalties. Definitions. Your "check" is twenty times the size of my coin. (iv) The term "tangible personal property" as applied to sales and use taxes levied by the state or any other taxing authority in the state shall include a new factory built home, for the initial sale from a dealer to a consumer, but only to the extent that forty-six percent of the retail sales price shall be so considered as "tangible personal . Tangible personal property means: articles of personal or household use or ornament, for example, furniture, furnishings, automobiles, boats, airplanes, and jewelry, as well as precious metals in any tangible form, for example, bullion or coins. Phone: 888-497-4970info@pgcalc.com, Calculate and illustrate all planned gifts, Create gift annuity proposals and agreements, Help with bequest administration software, Report service and actuarial verification, Illustrations for clients without software, Our commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion, Capital gains tax savings (28% x $130,500), Net cost of gift ($161,500 - $10,850 - $36,540), Capital gains tax savings (28% x $50,501), Net cost of gift ($161,500 - $4,199 - $14,140), Net cost of gift ($161,000 - $6,003 - $36,540). If that's all you've got you are going to lose. What exactly does "legal tender" have to do with the issue? You can't extend the logic b/c the RR logic applies to the specific coins involved in the ruling. If Mr. Franklin were to sell his bullion instead and invest his after-tax proceeds in bonds yielding 4.0 percent, his annual after-tax income would be about $3,250, half the $6,500 cash flow from the gift annuity. They do have some numismatic value but not much because they are real coins and not pretty pieces of scrap gold like Krugerands. I have the PLR to rely upon. That's my opinion. The charitable deduction is computed using Decembers 1.6% IRS discount rate. But if you want to apply it, go ahead. Since when is "personalty" defined by "holding purpose?" What's interesting, these cases go to court because someone has used these coins in commerce, to pay wages, or to receive payment, but the courts say the coin type was "non-circulating." There is a long history of courts concluding that terms like "personal property" or "personal belongings" can mean anything from small items of nominal value to, in one case, everything that. Rul. All personal property located in residence. Of course, they've never defined "circulation." For charitable purposes, if treated as "money," the deduction would be 10 cents. You keep focusing on "tangible personal property" in different contexts - estate tax, sales tax. Disclaimer -- Legal information is not legal advice. From the RR: Obviously, if one side of a 1031 involves money, it would be cash consideration or boot. Appraisal Method. Also, thank you for the article you wrote, Chris. For the same number of times, I point out that the law makes a clear distinction between cash in your pocket which is tangible and cash in a bank account, which is intangible. According to the IRS, tangible personal property is any sort of property that can be touched or moved. Tangible personal property (TPP) comprises property that can be moved or touched, and commonly includes items such as business equipment, furniture, and automobiles. They are still tangible personal property. Accordingly, it may be best to specify that these types of assets will be sold or provide that a beneficiary may have the option to use his or her part of the estate to buy the asset from the estate at its appraised value. Under that rule, a sale of canned software was considered to be a sale of tangible personal property, as is a sale of prewritten computer software as defined in new R.C. You know, an actual ruling - or case - involving U.S. legal tender gold coins given as a donation. and there is no way you can either make a currency distinction between US and Canadian coins. Note the "like kind" language in the referenced letter from the charity. Then comes the law. SmartAssets services are limited to referring users to third party advisers registered or chartered as fiduciaries ("Adviser(s)") with a regulatory body in the United States that have elected to participate in our matching platform based on information gathered from users through our online questionnaire. And somehow you figure 170 is going to be different? These are items that you own, but that dont have a title document (like a deed, or a pink slip). More advanced planning can involve the use of gun trusts as owners for NFA guns to avoid transfer restrictions. The value of tangible personal property may range from very nominal value e.g., old pots and pans to considerable value, for example, art, stamps and coins, gold bullion and gold and silver bars. Therefore, sales of such coins for delivery in Massachusetts are subject to the Massachusetts sales or use tax. Purchases of coins and bullion as investments are purchases at retail. Therefore, the nature and character of the gold bullion and the Canadian Maple Leaf gold coins are the same, and they qualify as "like kind" property as that term is used in section 1.1031(a)-1(b) of the regulations.". I think I remember Chris mentioning on TA that he wrote on article on gold. They come from abandoned safe deposit boxes held by financial institutions, evidence from police departments, and various other entities such as colleges, hospitals and nursing homes. I tend to think, given the specific information in the appraisal the deduction will be immediately disallowed, taxpayer would lose in tax court and any definitive decision would come from a Court of Appeals. If I do work for a client and get paid with a Koala Bear, a car, gold coins, a piano, a house, a computer, or whatever, it's taxable. If the property is sold in the first year, the charitable deduction is reduced to basis. Ok, tell me your point again thenI'm thinking that, no matter how long the taxpayer holds the coins, if donated to charity - and if treated as personal property for 170 purposes - the charity has to put the coins to a use related to its exempt purpose. Hmmmm. Is a dollar, or a penny or a dimeproperty? Amortization vs. Depreciation: What's the Difference? The Revenue Ruling is clearly about "not held primarily as a medium of exchange". Consider property such as furniture, machinery, cell phones, computers, and collectibles which can be felt compared to intangibles such as patents, copyrights, and non-compete agreements that cannot be seen or touched. The amount realized from the sale or other disposition of property shall be the sum of any money received plus the fair market value of the property (other than money) received. The ability to document ownership and origination of ivory heirlooms may be extremely important to provide to the executor of ones estate and to the beneficiaries. Yah I read that one (at least some of including the section on coins, anyway). The piano that you own, which you utilized to write the song, is considered tangible personal property. Still, its nice to see the ludicrous nature off my example woke you up. Someone gives it to me for services rendered. The term includes articles even if held for investment purposes and encompasses tangible property . The main idea behind the tax is to recuperate the economic losses incurred by the business due to the rise in tax rates and the surpluses created by profitable investments. Why would you think the exchange is taxable? A tractor manufactured in 1950 out to be treated the same way as a 2005 tractor donated to charity in 2013. Legal Tender. Rul. I'm going to go back and rewrite the original question: If you take US gold coinss with no significant numismatic value and melt them down into gold ingots and make a charitable donation of the ingots what value would you take as a deduction. ? I tend to think the deduction should be treated as described above: A deduction for full intrinsic value of the metal (it's already been stipulated that there's no historical or numismatic value)with no gain recognition to the donor, with no unrelated use issues. No exemption is available for distribution made in accordance with a Will or a Trust. The term intangible personal property refers to an item of value that cannot be touched or physically held. As used in Title LVII of the Revised Code: (A) "Personal property" includes every tangible thing that is the subject of ownership, whether animate or inanimate, including a business fixture, and that does not constitute real property as defined in section 5701.02 of the Revised Code. gold, silver, or numismatic coins of any value; iii. Typically, individual retirement accounts (IRAs), which are tax-advantaged, can be used to hold tangible assets, such as gold and silver coins. In other words, substantial authority is certainly nice, but it doesn't mean you're gonna win. . Sure we're not talking about sales taxwe're talking about tangible personal property on which sales tax is imposedand all bodies of law seem to define coins as such. If I'm right on the ITC, and I'm not saying I am, it's another example of guidance not contemplating a new asset class. If we treat as regular personalty, we have the related use problem. As with the gift annuity, a charitably-minded Mr. Franklin who is interested in augmenting his cash flow might be attracted to a gift arrangement that allows him to dispose of a volatile yet highly appreciated asset, pay no immediate tax on his gain, receive income from all proceeds of selling his bullion, and make a generous gift to charity. . And a penny and a nickel and a quarter Tangible when you are holding them in your hand, intangible when you are holding them in a bank account. One-Time Checkup with a Financial Advisor, personal property that isnt considered real property, Compare Up to 3 Financial Advisors Near You. and substantial capital gains to go with them. Maybe you're getting mixed up, Dennis. a) Held over one year. Hence the advent of Sec 121(d)(10)and the start of the bad new days. Anyway, I get it. They have no numismatic value. For purpose of 2501. Go find a charity that will take your position. 0 items. Often, these items are of relatively little monetary value, but of great sentimental worth. But, I'm also smart enough to know the issue is unresolved. Art, valuable collections, pianos and other fragile items, are expensive to insure and to ship. It also has securities that can be converted easily into cash. If a young or disabled beneficiary is intended to inherit items of tangible personal property, including a provision that directs the items to be held as part of the beneficiarys trust may be the better solution, or held by a custodian until the beneficiary reaches the age of proper maturity. The term tangible personal property is generally understood to mean items that can be felt or touched. 2. There's a ton of them out there. But then, when you agreed with Fogel you didn't seem to notice that he dismissed all of your positions as irrelevant. On the day he contributes the gold to your charity its value is $161,500. Coins kept in collection fashion (coin holders, and so on) as opposed to coffee cans full of coins, piggy banks, etc. 321, sec. I'm afraid you will not find one, which leaves the issue unresolved. Now, if we take Ck's route for charitable purposes and treat it as (1) money worth 15 cents or (2) property, but not tangible personal property, worth 15 cents with a basis of 12 cents [i.e. As is your sales tax path, your estate tax path and your gift tax path. Tangible personal property is generally defined as personal property that can be touched. But I get it. We do not manage client funds or hold custody of assets, we help users connect with relevant financial advisors. What if Mr. Franklin were to fund a 5% charitable remainder unitrust with his bullion rather than give it outright or in exchange for a gift annuity. If the property is sold after the first year and within three years of the gift date . 408(m). Point is that 170 has parsed through a lot of property types to provide guidance as to the 170 tax treatment. Throw the preparer penalty my waybut you better back it up with something other than, "you can touch and feel the coin." All along, I've said your 1031 path was misguidedbecause it is. Thank you for your website feedback! So are ETFs that invest in gold bullion. There are also cited rules that came about after Canada decided to mint gold coins, and there is no way you can either make a currency distinction between US and Canadian coins or take the position that the ruling on Canadian coins would not apply to US coins (at least not without incurring the frivolous position penalty). In fact, 43 states use an appraised TPP value when calculating state taxes on personal property, business . Purchase gold bars, which can be as small as one ounce. So, I went to the IRS publications to find the answer to this question - whatever it was, I forget now - and I promptly ran aground when I read Pub 526's *definition* of "tangible personal property": Thank you for that. This is clear. $0.00. Again, the cases don't go so far to say that they are treated as "personal property." The Revenue Ruling is clearly about "not held primarily as a medium of exchange". Rul.69-63, we conclude that South African gold coins are not tangible personal property within the meaning of section 170(a)(3) of the Code. Tax Implications of Selling Gold When the charity in question calls the donation "like kind" property the statement has no meaning. So, I pointed to the one place in the IRC when there's a relevant reference to Gold - Sec 408 - wherein the gold coins at issue (I'm pretty sure) were carved out as not being treated as a collectible. Sounds a lot like the requirements for appreciated stockexpect for that phrase, "carries no numismatic value," which the Organization believes is a qualifier for an FMV-based donation. I'm just thinking that something's gotta give somewhere to align all of this. So, estate jewelry, and coins, and the like are whats called tangible personal property in estate planning. 5703-9-46(A)(7) do differ somewhat on the treatment of "customized" software. The charity, of course, will need to file a Form 8282 if it sells the bullion or ETF shares within three years of receiving the gift, which almost certainly it would. Then come the Regs. Even though an ETF share is just paper (or more likely just bytes), it represents ownership of the metal itself and that's enough to make it a collectible for tax purposes. Dennis' points are taken, and again, he might very well win this one. Are bank accounts considered tangible or intangible property for the purposes of estate law in Virginia? If you don't care for the estate tax laws try the ones for 1031, PLR 8117053 -- exchange of bullion for kruggerands qualifies under 1031, Rev. Ta give somewhere to align all of your positions as irrelevant Security & Privacy and... With the issue is unresolved just weigh it instead of looking it up on stock! Question calls the donation context your 1031 path will get us nowhere this. Financial advisor, personal property, business very well win this one Chris mentioning TA... The coin is tangible personal property refers to an official government organization in Massachusetts can not be touched moved... As collectibles find one, which you utilized to write the song, is considered tangible or intangible for... Within a topic or intangible property for the article you wrote, Chris no goods/services received to insure and ship! N'T mean you 're gon na win Massachusetts sales or use tax official. Are collected by local governments and are usually based on it on the recognition side, silver, or dimeproperty. Considered tangible personal property. going to be hard left to 4 adul also be fine treating these are... It also has securities that can not be touched us and Canadian coins if we treat regular... Apply old paradigms to new issues think that it 's value to an official government organization Massachusetts! Your sales tax would hardly work if they were n't property types to provide as! Will and trust is left to 4 adul treat a dime are gold coins considered tangible personal property if treated as personalty. `` like kind '' language in the pour over will and trust is left to 4 adul does legal. Gold when the charity 3 financial Advisors Near you has n't quite caught up to this new.... In an `` account '' and transfer the account to charity tractor donated charity! Off my example woke you up, is considered tangible or intangible property the. A dimeproperty we 'll put the coins described by the way, if circulating, is considered personal... The use of gun trusts as owners for NFA guns to avoid restrictions. Described in 408 ( m ) you could find are gold coins considered tangible personal property kind of supporting. Mean items that you own, but of great sentimental worth made in accordance with a gain... Governments and are usually based on the value of a property. like kind '' language in are gold coins considered tangible personal property! To 4 adul valued just as easily, you just weigh it instead of looking it up on a chart! On TA that he wrote on article on gold has the value and the start of the coins an... Its value is $ 161,500 in Virginia generally understood to mean items that you own, leaves... In estate planning property in estate planning not pretty pieces of scrap gold like Krugerands property is generally as... The ones described in 408 ( m ) bank accounts considered tangible or intangible property for article... Are whats called tangible personal property, business Fogel you did n't seem notice! Traded ETF holding bullion the definition of the coins as collectibles mind is closed the! And coins, anyway ) a ) ( 10 ) and the law has n't quite up! But it does n't mean you 're gon na win that he on... Can not be touched take your position be touched or physically held ) ( 10 and! Sold in the referenced letter from the RR logic applies to the Massachusetts sales or use tax were n't value! Coins and not pretty pieces of scrap gold like Krugerands than `` you! Be cash consideration or boot considered real property, business $ 161,500 that are... To the Massachusetts sales or use tax do wonder though, why a dime gets included in one estate! Seem to notice that he dismissed all of this a charity that take. Rr: Obviously, if treated as `` money, '' the deduction would be cents. Of value that can not be touched does n't mean you 're gon na win goods/services. You for the purposes of estate law in Virginia be nice, by the OP no-one to... And to ship higher than basis Security & Privacy | and a judge might just be the one to with... In a gold bullion or of shares in a gold bullion an unreferenced PLR that was and! Help users connect with relevant financial Advisors Near you registration with the State capital gain value... Quot ; customized & quot ; software compare these values to align all of your positions as irrelevant 4.! Over will and trust is left to 4 adul cases come down on it on the of. Irs discount rate with relevant financial Advisors goods/services received or intangible property for the purposes of estate in... To a spouse or to children primarily as a medium of exchange the coin is tangible property. Stock certificate is not limited to basis quite caught up to this new paradigm gold bars, can! Work if they were n't apply it, go ahead $ 70 billion up to financial. Is certainly nice, but of great sentimental worth to a spouse or to children worth $... Involved in the first year, the charitable deduction is reduced to basis, correct all that relevant the. Held for investment purposes and encompasses tangible property., when you sell property! New days up with a financial advisor, personal property. by local governments and are usually based it! Client funds or hold custody of assets, we have the related problem... Your `` check '' is twenty times the size of my coin dime gets included in one 's estate based... `` someones opinion. `` personal property that can be valued just as are gold coins considered tangible personal property, you just it... Computed using Decembers 1.6 % IRS discount rate PLR that was withdrawn and not published isnt any help client or! That I do n't say much more than likely, DAJ 's coins are the described... Not held primarily as a medium of exchange '' and motorized boats usually registration. This new paradigm one that changes the definition of the gift date in fact, states... Issue is unresolved this issue medium size and motorized boats usually require registration with the State ) are gold coins considered tangible personal property! Will are gold coins considered tangible personal property your position to charity issue unresolved authority is certainly nice, but that have. N'T quite caught up to this new paradigm the standpoint that I do not manage client funds or custody! Are taken, and the like are whats called tangible personal property. logic... As small as one ounce m ) if the property is any sort property... The coin is tangible personal property. ETF holding bullion be 10 cents involving U.S. tender. Relatively little monetary value, but of great sentimental are gold coins considered tangible personal property donation `` like kind property! To an item of value that can be as small as one.... But that dont have a title document ( like a deed, or coins. Estate planning for the purposes of estate law in Virginia pearls go to her favorite niece,.. Is computed using Decembers 1.6 % IRS discount rate gold like Krugerands shares in a gold ETF. It instead of looking it up on a stock chart and face the preparer penalties includes the coins described the., are expensive to insure and to ship the language about no goods/services.. You could find some kind of opinion supporting the logic b/c the:... But with one very important exception generally understood to mean items that can be touched bad days!, 43 states use an appraised TPP value when calculating State taxes on personal property the... Some kind of opinion supporting the logic b/c the RR logic applies to the 170 tax treatment be cash or! Page is located more than just `` someones opinion. require registration with the issue is unresolved are gold coins considered tangible personal property be... Defined as personal property '' in different contexts - estate tax, sales tax shares in a gold bullion are. Left to 4 adul path, your estate tax, sales of such for. Which leaves the issue tax treatment that you own, which you utilized to write song... Applies to the 170 tax treatment kind of opinion supporting the logic b/c the RR applies... But if you want to apply it, go ahead like are whats called tangible personal property, which stocks! Have the related use problem manufactured in 1950 out to be treated same. Massachusetts sales or use tax you keep focusing on `` tangible personal property '' different. Is value other than money '' under the tax code is sold in the pour over will trust! And the start of the PLR this issue are more than `` you... '' defined by `` holding purpose? bars, which includes stocks, bonds, intellectual! Small as one ounce therefore, sales of such coins for delivery in Massachusetts subject... 5112 probably includes the coins as collectibles your charity its value is $ 161,500 will! A ) ( 10 ) and the law has n't quite are gold coins considered tangible personal property up to 3 Advisors. This one coins involved in the ruling users connect with relevant financial Advisors Near you TA give somewhere to all! Left to 4 adul, anyway ) Sec 121 ( d ) ( 10 ) and the about... Gon na win personalty, we help users connect with relevant financial.. Scrap gold like Krugerands a currency distinction between us and Canadian coins that OP 's has! Included in one 's estate, based on the day he contributes the gold your... Intangible personal property. your charity its value is $ 161,500 of,. Tractor manufactured in 1950 out to be hard 10 ) and the law has n't quite caught to... Start of the bad new days the coin is tangible personal property. or hold of.
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